Check out this old post for my suggestions: 5595

HI, I have been lurking for a short while, got on the list just in time to
read the recent happenings. WHat kind of organizing? I was under the
impression that the websites (letterboxing,org and atlasquest) were some
sort of loose organization. . . but I may be wrong, we are so new to
letterboxing, we would hate to see restrictions. . . .
6jumpingbeans

On 4/10/07, John wrote:
>
> I've been away for a while and just recently browsed some of the
> newsgroup messages. It seems like letterboxers are getting pressured
> off of a lot of lands.
>
> As early as 2001, I said this would happen and nobody listened. The
> only answer is for letterboxing to organize. If land managers have an
> entity to deal with, they might be more willing to cooperate. However,
> I don't think that will happen. Nobody wants to take responsibility.
> That pretty much spells out the whole problem.
>
> Forester
>
> P.S. I'll try to find some of my original posts and list the number.
>
>
>



--
karen arnold
Our blog of pics and family happenings --> www.akjlfarnold.blogspot.com
Check out the Birth Network in South Dakota! --> www.born-midwest.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's only organized online in regards to the management of clues.
There is not an organization for contact person(s)that represent
letterboxing. There's no official organization that a land manager
can deal with. If you look at other outdoor based organizations,
they all go to great pains to cooperate with public land managers.
Do you think a Boy Scout doing a service project is just going to
walk onto public lands and either nail up bird houses or build a
bridge without talking to a ranger first?

Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with the
clandestine element in the letterbox community.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Arnold"
wrote:
>
> HI, I have been lurking for a short while, got on the list just in
time to
> read the recent happenings. WHat kind of organizing? I was under
the
> impression that the websites (letterboxing,org and atlasquest)
were some
> sort of loose organization. . . but I may be wrong, we are so new
to
> letterboxing, we would hate to see restrictions. . . .
> 6jumpingbeans
>
> On 4/10/07, John wrote:
> >
> > I've been away for a while and just recently browsed some of
the
> > newsgroup messages. It seems like letterboxers are getting
pressured
> > off of a lot of lands.
> >
> > As early as 2001, I said this would happen and nobody listened.
The
> > only answer is for letterboxing to organize. If land managers
have an
> > entity to deal with, they might be more willing to cooperate.
However,
> > I don't think that will happen. Nobody wants to take
responsibility.
> > That pretty much spells out the whole problem.
> >
> > Forester
> >
> > P.S. I'll try to find some of my original posts and list the
number.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> karen arnold
> Our blog of pics and family happenings -->
www.akjlfarnold.blogspot.com
> Check out the Birth Network in South Dakota! --> www.born-
midwest.org
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
> Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
> reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with the
> clandestine element in the letterbox community.

While not commenting on the merits of letterboxing organizing, your
comment about YOU reaching out to land managers seems a little
presumptious.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:

> Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
> reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with the
> clandestine element in the letterbox community.
>
Please, before you or anyone else goes running off trying to speak for
the whole of letterboxing, make sure you know of which you speak or
you could make things even worse than they already are.

There currently is a semi-formal procedure for contact with the
letterboxing community and administrators, via a link from
letterboxing.org. These messages go to a group of very dedicated
webmasters who answer each e-mail from land managers and parks and
other property owners and accidental box finders and attempt to make
contact with letterbox owners for removal, etc. as necessary. Just
because you don't see anything actively happening, does not mean it is
not going on behind the scenes.

I shuddered at your last comment, "make a clear break with the
clandestine element in the letterbox community." Scary that somebody
who can make a statement like that, which clearly demonstrates that
you do not thoroughly understand letterboxing, thinks he is capable of
negotiating policies for the entire community.

SpringChick

Ever heard the expression " like hearding cats".

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick" wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
>
> > Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> > involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
> > reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with the
> > clandestine element in the letterbox community.
> >
> Please, before you or anyone else goes running off trying to speak for
> the whole of letterboxing, make sure you know of which you speak or
> you could make things even worse than they already are.
>
> There currently is a semi-formal procedure for contact with the
> letterboxing community and administrators, via a link from
> letterboxing.org. These messages go to a group of very dedicated
> webmasters who answer each e-mail from land managers and parks and
> other property owners and accidental box finders and attempt to make
> contact with letterbox owners for removal, etc. as necessary. Just
> because you don't see anything actively happening, does not mean it is
> not going on behind the scenes.
>
> I shuddered at your last comment, "make a clear break with the
> clandestine element in the letterbox community." Scary that somebody
> who can make a statement like that, which clearly demonstrates that
> you do not thoroughly understand letterboxing, thinks he is capable of
> negotiating policies for the entire community.
>
> SpringChick
>

Although we've never met, Forester is no spring chicken. Er, I mean
newbie.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
>
> > Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> > involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be
to
> > reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with
the
> > clandestine element in the letterbox community.
> >
> Please, before you or anyone else goes running off trying to speak
for
> the whole of letterboxing, make sure you know of which you speak
or
> you could make things even worse than they already are.
>
> There currently is a semi-formal procedure for contact with the
> letterboxing community and administrators, via a link from
> letterboxing.org. These messages go to a group of very dedicated
> webmasters who answer each e-mail from land managers and parks and
> other property owners and accidental box finders and attempt to
make
> contact with letterbox owners for removal, etc. as necessary.
Just
> because you don't see anything actively happening, does not mean
it is
> not going on behind the scenes.
>
> I shuddered at your last comment, "make a clear break with the
> clandestine element in the letterbox community." Scary that
somebody
> who can make a statement like that, which clearly demonstrates
that
> you do not thoroughly understand letterboxing, thinks he is
capable of
> negotiating policies for the entire community.
>
> SpringChick
>

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
> Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
> reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with the
> clandestine element in the letterbox community.


And just what is wrong with the clandenstine element of letterboxing?

I'm not interested in dilution. If I want to play with chemicals I'll
go back to the lab. This is full strength.

phyto

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Phyto" wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
> > Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> > involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
> > reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with the
> > clandestine element in the letterbox community.
>
>
> And just what is wrong with the clandenstine element of letterboxing?
>
> I'm not interested in dilution. If I want to play with chemicals I'll
> go back to the lab. This is full strength.
>
> phyto
>

Phyto,

We are dinosaurs, didn't you know that "Family Fun" magazine has
decided that this was a "fun excuse for families to get outside" and
not the game "we" love.

I'm not sure if I need an "excuse" but it would seem that most of
those playing the game these days do.

"Stupid is as Stupid does"

The best thing that could come out of these people that feel the need
to "reach out to public land managers" is for them to fail in their
efforts. Maybe then all the "land managers" will get together and
decide that any property left behind by an individual is litter, and
therefore, civil disobedience. Once it becomes an unlawful act to
plant a letterbox, the "Mom's" will go away. And we can get back to
the game "the clandestine element" loves.

I can't help but think that the original LbNA site always "hinted" at
the thought that there might be something actually hidden at the spot
that the clues pointed to. Now with the feature of someone actually
being able to verify that someone else, has in fact, placed what, by
law, can be considered trash, in public domain, the thought of a law
suit rears it's ugly head.

I can only hope that those responsible for the changes in the
difference of the concept of a certain web site being a "store house"
of clues to letterboxes, and a place to "database" the actual
activity, i.e: a list of finders, has been blurred and that they in
fact are the parties to be held in account of our activities.

It is for this basic fact that I have removed my clues from both of
the main clue sites, I no longer was in control of what my clues
content contained.

Brian
TeamGreenDragon

>>>It is for this basic fact that I have removed my clues from both of
>>>the main clue sites, I no longer was in control of what my clues
>>>content contained.
>>>
>>>Brian
>>>TeamGreenDragon


I feel similarly, Brian. I like for the location of my boxes to be protected
and respected by those who seek them. I therefore only place the name of the
box and the city in which it is located on my online listing. I prefer to
use Atlas Quest because it allows me to choose an F-count for the people
looking for boxes in the area (don't get me wrong, I enjoy LbNA as well, but that
one feature sways my listings). I feel that asking a letterboxer to meet one
of a few simple requirements helps to ensure that people who care about the
hobby are the ones who receive the clues. :o)

Three Hearts



_
Click to signup for
CFLLB Spring Gathering_
(http://www.atlasquest.com/events/signup.html?gEventId=317)

30 days to go...!



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't presume to speak for Mr. Green Dragon, he was a dinosaur
before I ever heard of this game, but I don't think more bells and
whistles will bring back the feel of the early game. I think he was
talking about a time when the only information you had was the CLUE.
You had to actually go outside to find out if it was actually there,
if anyone else had found it, what the stamp was like...and sometimes
you had to go back a few times before you could figure out where it
was. You felt pretty lucky to get a stamp. And if you were curious
about how many you had found, you could count the stamps in your
logbook.(?!)

After years of people whining about unfulfilled dreams of multiple-
stamp days, we now have a situation where Drewclan, Mapsurfer, the
Greendragons and Phyto don't qualify to see some of the more creative
clues because they don't log their finds online. And it's hard to
find their clues because they are trying to keep them from being
logged as finds.

The dinosaurs may become extinct, but they will probably die laughing
at the concept of a MYSTERY clue that you can ONLY see if your every
move is tracked on a database.

y-nought





I prefer to
> use Atlas Quest because it allows me to choose an F-count for the
people
> looking for boxes in the area (don't get me wrong, I enjoy LbNA as
well, but that
> one feature sways my listings). I feel that asking a letterboxer
to meet one
> of a few simple requirements helps to ensure that people who care
about the
> hobby are the ones who receive the clues. :o)
>
> Three Hearts
>
>

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of edwebbe
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:47 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: I saw it coming



I think he was talking about a time when the only information you had was
the CLUE.
You had to actually go outside to find out if it was actually there, if
anyone else had found it, what the stamp was like...and sometimes you had to
go back a few times before you could figure out where it was. You felt
pretty lucky to get a stamp. And if you were curious
about how many you had found, you could count the stamps in your
logbook.(?!)



y-nought

This is how I still play the game. I don't log anything, don't look for any fancy icons to tell me what box is a "must see". I just go out in the woods, paper clues in hand, and do my best. If I find the box, I'm thrilled. If not, I know I'll be back if I can. I don't need gadgets, counts or geegaws, just clues, compass and my dog. A trail buddy now and then makes for a nice change. Others play the game their way, I play it my way.


edwebbe wrote:

I think he was talking about a time when the only information you had was the CLUE.
You had to actually go outside to find out if it was actually there,
if anyone else had found it, what the stamp was like...and sometimes
you had to go back a few times before you could figure out where it
was. You felt pretty lucky to get a stamp. And if you were curious
about how many you had found, you could count the stamps in your
logbook.(?!)




---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay, lemme get this straight.

The folks listed "...don't qualify to see some of the more creative
clues because they don't log their finds online".

Hmm.

Several assumptions there.
I can't quibble with the fact that apparently some clues are only
available to those who log online. But, I dare guess that "some of the
more creative clues" are still lurking very quietly in very safe places.
I think you probably have to know where to look.

azobox


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "edwebbe" wrote:
>
> I don't presume to speak for Mr. Green Dragon, he was a dinosaur
> before I ever heard of this game, but I don't think more bells and
> whistles will bring back the feel of the early game. I think he was
> talking about a time when the only information you had was the CLUE.
> You had to actually go outside to find out if it was actually there,
> if anyone else had found it, what the stamp was like...and sometimes
> you had to go back a few times before you could figure out where it
> was. You felt pretty lucky to get a stamp. And if you were curious
> about how many you had found, you could count the stamps in your
> logbook.(?!)
>
> After years of people whining about unfulfilled dreams of multiple-
> stamp days, we now have a situation where Drewclan, Mapsurfer, the
> Greendragons and Phyto don't qualify to see some of the more creative
> clues because they don't log their finds online. And it's hard to
> find their clues because they are trying to keep them from being
> logged as finds.
>
> The dinosaurs may become extinct, but they will probably die laughing
> at the concept of a MYSTERY clue that you can ONLY see if your every
> move is tracked on a database.
>
> y-nought
>
>
>
>
>
> I prefer to
> > use Atlas Quest because it allows me to choose an F-count for the
> people
> > looking for boxes in the area (don't get me wrong, I enjoy LbNA as
> well, but that
> > one feature sways my listings). I feel that asking a letterboxer
> to meet one
> > of a few simple requirements helps to ensure that people who care
> about the
> > hobby are the ones who receive the clues. :o)
> >
> > Three Hearts
> >
> >
>

I want my letterboxes to be found. I want to see
as many stamps in my books as possible. Putting a
restriction on a letter box until a person becomes
more experenced at finding the clues, in my mind, is
the most stupidest thing in this game. It is very
elitest. Why not just put a box out in the woods and
do not make up any clues.
I will never put an F-count restriction on any of
my boxes. I have alot of stamps in my book but no time
to list them in on the computer. The letter boxing
sites are there to find clues.

Bicyling George




test'; ">

test'; ">

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Add my name to those unqualified to find your letterboxes. Data entry
isn't my idea of a good time letterboxing. Funny that should label me
as one who doesnt' care about my hobby. Sigh... Funhog (boxing since 2001)

> I prefer to
> use Atlas Quest because it allows me to choose an F-count for the
people
> looking for boxes in the area (don't get me wrong, I enjoy LbNA as
well, but that
> one feature sways my listings). I feel that asking a letterboxer
to meet one
> of a few simple requirements helps to ensure that people who care
about the
> hobby are the ones who receive the clues. :o)
>
> Three Hearts
>
>
>
> _
> Click to signup for
> CFLLB Spring Gathering_
> (http://www.atlasquest.com/events/signup.html?gEventId=317)
>
> 30 days to go...!
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

1. And couldn't it work the other way around also? Once people know that
logging one's finds onto atlasquest is a "requirement" to being considered a
boxer who "cares about the hobby," is there anything on atlasquest to
prevent someone from going thru and recording finds for a couple of hundred
boxes or so just for kicks to play with the system? We already have clues
posted for a box in this area, clues for a box that doesn't exist, clues
posted, according to the neighbors of the teens, supposedly so that some
teens can videotape boxers' frustrations at not being able to find the box
and put the video on the internet. Smile, you're on candid camera. :-)

2. How does someone having found 1 box, 10 boxes, 100 boxes, etc. prove they
care ANYthing about the hobby in regards to caring about other boxers? It
proves they care about finding boxes. It never demonstrates that they care
about finding boxes responsibly so that the boxers who come along to find
that box after them can enjoy that box too. I've come along fairly quickly
behind some of our veteran boxers in the past and found boxes left in
not-too-good shape. Yes, someone could have come along in-between us and
found the box, didn't put anything in the logbook and was negligent with the
box, but with the timing and all, it's not that likely.

3. But they're your boxes, Three Hearts, and nobody can ever take 'em away
from ya. Well, yeah, I guess they can, just make sure you log into
atlasquest once a year, but since you log your finds at atlasquest,
obviously you're there at least once a year. But they're your boxes and
whatever works for ya. Whether it really works or whether it doesn't really
work but it gives ya a false sense of security, whatever system works for
ya, they're your boxes. When it comes to blood pressure readings, a false
sense of security is just as good as a real sense of security. They both
work just as well as either Valium or sleeping pills.

~~ Mosey ~~



-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of funhog1
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 1:01 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: I saw it coming


Add my name to those unqualified to find your letterboxes. Data entry
isn't my idea of a good time letterboxing. Funny that should label me
as one who doesnt' care about my hobby. Sigh... Funhog (boxing since 2001)

> I prefer to
> use Atlas Quest because it allows me to choose an F-count for the
people
> looking for boxes in the area (don't get me wrong, I enjoy LbNA as
well, but that
> one feature sways my listings). I feel that asking a letterboxer
to meet one
> of a few simple requirements helps to ensure that people who care
about the
> hobby are the ones who receive the clues. :o)
>
> Three Hearts

It's not just about the numbers. Some people use that feature to add a
dimension to the game. Guess what, putting an F count requirement on a box
at AQ is the same thing as having a WOM box you only give to those that XYZ.
No different. There will always be boxes out there that some people wont'
ever see the clues too. It's the way of life. I personally would rather
spend my time out chasing the boxes I DO have clues to then worry about the
ones I don't.

Happy Trails,
Maiden

_____

From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of funhog1
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:01 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: I saw it coming



Add my name to those unqualified to find your letterboxes. Data entry
isn't my idea of a good time letterboxing. Funny that should label me
as one who doesnt' care about my hobby. Sigh... Funhog (boxing since 2001)

> I prefer to
> use Atlas Quest because it allows me to choose an F-count for the
people
> looking for boxes in the area (don't get me wrong, I enjoy LbNA as
well, but that
> one feature sways my listings). I feel that asking a letterboxer
to meet one
> of a few simple requirements helps to ensure that people who care
about the
> hobby are the ones who receive the clues. :o)
>
> Three Hearts
>
>
>
> _
> Click to signup for
> CFLLB Spring Gathering_
> (http://www.atlasque

st.com/events/signup.html?gEventId=317)
>
> 30 days to go...!
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol. com.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>After years of people whining about unfulfilled dreams of multiple-
>>>stamp days, we now have a situation where Drewclan, Mapsurfer, the
>>>Greendragons and Phyto don't qualify to see some of the more creative
>>>clues because they don't log their finds online. And it's hard to
>>>find their clues because they are trying to keep them from being
>>>logged as finds.
>>>
>>>The dinosaurs may become extinct, but they will probably die laughing
>>>at the concept of a MYSTERY clue that you can ONLY see if your every
>>>move is tracked on a database.
>>>
>>>y-nought

Completely understood, and that's why I said I felt "similarly". There are
just enough people who are *not* like the beloved dinosaurs & protectors of
the game that I feel that the solution that I personally have come up with for
my boxes seems to be effective. Personally, I enjoy logging my finds online
because it's easier for me to record that way - not because I think some other
person will be impressed or anything like that. It's just for *me*. If
someone wants my clues that does not use either of the two big sites, all they have
to do is ask. Just think of them as WOM clues, in that regard. :o) It's just
that around here there are a lot of people who deliberately do harm to
letterboxes, and it helps to try my best to filter them out, kwim?

Three Hearts



_
Click to signup for
CFLLB Spring Gathering_
(http://www.atlasquest.com/events/signup.html?gEventId=317)




************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>I want my letterboxes to be found. I want to see
>>>as many stamps in my books as possible. Putting a
>>>restriction on a letter box until a person becomes
>>>more experenced at finding the clues, in my mind, is
>>>the most stupidest thing in this game. It is very
>>>elitest. Why not just put a box out in the woods and
>>>do not make up any clues.
>>>I will never put an F-count restriction on any of
>>>my boxes. I have alot of stamps in my book but no time
>>>to list them in on the computer. The letter boxing
>>>sites are there to find clues.
>>>
>>>Bicyling George


I'm so happy to hear that you are comfortable with the feeling that your
boxes will not be mistreated! That's wonderful!

Where I live, there have been several instances of park rangers logging onto
the main sites to get the clues to the boxes in their parks and going out to
remove them!!! There have also been reports of very unkind individuals who
just want to damage boxes - why, I don't know.

I find that putting an F-count restriction of *1* (one) helps to prevent
that from happening to my boxes. I don't find that low a number (one find)
elitist at all. I wouldn't make it any higher, though. I want people to find my
boxes, just not the people who want to hurt them. I would never keep my clues
away from anyone who asked for them.

Thanks for your response, George!!! :o)

Three Hearts



_
Click to signup for
CFLLB Spring Gathering_
(http://www.atlasquest.com/events/signup.html?gEventId=317)




************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>Add my name to those unqualified to find your letterboxes. Data entry
>>>isn't my idea of a good time letterboxing. Funny that should label me
>>>as one who doesnt' care about my hobby. Sigh... Funhog (boxing since 2001)
>>>
>>>
>>>I feel that asking a letterboxer to meet one of a few simple requirements
helps to ensure that people who >>>care about the hobby are the ones who
receive the clues. :o)


You're not remotely unqualified. Like I mentioned to Bicycling George,
anyone who asks for the clues can have them. They just have to ask. I'm sorry that
you interpreted my attempt to explain my reasoning as "labeling" you. That
is not the case. A "person who cares about the hobby" is any individual who
chooses to find a letterbox for the purpose on enjoying it. One who does not
care about the hobby would be someone who was seeking clues for the purpose of
damaging the boxes - which happens a LOT down here. That certainly isn't you,
right? :o)

I think that I must not have explained myself as clearly as I thought I did.
Hopefully my responses will clear up my position on the topic.

Thank you for your response, Funhog! :o)

Three Hearts



_
Click to signup for
CFLLB Spring Gathering_
(http://www.atlasquest.com/events/signup.html?gEventId=317)




************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Right ThreeHearts429. That was the original intent of the f-count feature, as a filter to protect letterboxes. It prevented search engines from finding the clues. For those who are interested in the history of the f-count feature GT's original message:
http://www.atlasquest.com/boards/message.html?gMsgId=19990&gAuthorId=1&gSearch=club

Lone R

ThreeHearts429@aol.com wrote: Just think of them as WOM clues, in that regard. :o) It's just
that around here there are a lot of people who deliberately do harm to
letterboxes, and it helps to try my best to filter them out, kwim?

Three Hearts

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Having looked at your clues, I see that one of the requirements is:
"c) have found and logged 5 or more boxes." Without this discussion, I
would've never bothered to ask for your clues since I never intend to
have an online logbook. I do have one letterbox find, my very first,
listed on AQ specifically for those who want to use the F1 restriction
in order to prevent their clues from appearing with a Google search.
Thank you for clarifying this point.

As for Maiden's response, I really see the F count restriction quite
differently from a WOM clue. With those, no one has any idea that
there is a letterbox inexistence. If I don't know about a hidden clue,
I don't have any idea that I may or may not be permitted to find that
letterbox. Many thanks to anyone who has ever passed one of these
treasured gems along to me. Stealth rules! Funhog



> anyone who asks for the clues can have them. They just have to ask.
I'm sorry that
> you interpreted my attempt to explain my reasoning as "labeling"
you. That
> is not the case. A "person who cares about the hobby" is any
individual who
> chooses to find a letterbox for the purpose on enjoying it. One who
does not
> care about the hobby would be someone who was seeking clues for the
purpose of
> damaging the boxes - which happens a LOT down here. That certainly
isn't you,
> right? :o)

I believe that if you don't meet the f-count restriction the letterbox does not come up in your search, similar to a WOM - you don't have any idea that there is a letterbox in existence.

Lone R

funhog1 wrote: I really see the F count restriction quite
differently from a WOM clue. With those, no one has any idea that
there is a letterbox inexistence. If I don't know about a hidden clue,
I don't have any idea that I may or may not be permitted to find that
letterbox.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "melanie" wrote:
>
> It's not just about the numbers. Some people use that feature to add a
> dimension to the game. Guess what, putting an F count requirement on
a box
> at AQ is the same thing as having a WOM box you only give to those
that XYZ.


I don't agree, WOM allows you to control who finds your box because
you can give it only to people you know and trust. An Fcount
requirement (which by deffinition IS all about the numbers and only
about the numbers) tells you nothing other than the person is obsessed
about collecting stamps which doesn't tell you they're concerned about
leaving no trace or not ripping apart the flora in a single minded
quest for one more stamp or that they won't find a ranger and demand
that he show them where the box is in his park or send you a
nasty-gram accusing you of having the clues wrong.

For all the accusations of elitism that get thrown around on this site
I'm amazed that anyone uses this feature and besides, that's what your
freaking log book is for!!!

If the Fcount feature is not about the numbers what possible dimension
does counting numbers add that is not about the numbers???

It's not about the numbers for me - I have found 65 in 5 years. If it were about the numbers I'd travel across the border to the US where I can up my count to probably well over 100 in a couple of days.

I guess I like online statistics. It's easy to keep an accurate count on AQ (as a premium member). I also like the convenience of opening up my AQ account and seeing at a glance which boxes I've found, all kinds of letterboxes too -letterboxes on the geocaching site, the LBNA site, on other websites and WOM boxes.

Recording finds on AQ also makes it easier to search for local boxes, I can set up my search to exclude boxes I have found. I believe LBNA works this way as well i.e. it doesn't display boxes that I have marked as found.

I've planted 39 letterboxes and I really appreciate it when people log their finds, to me it says I think you letterbox is worthy of acknowledgment. I also see the logged finds as a useful tool for other finders - it tells them that the box was there on the date it was logged. This is especially handy when the owner does not respond to email or has dropped out of the game.

Lone R

Lady Hydrangea Prisspott nee Hedge wrote:
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "melanie" wrote:
>
> It's not just about the numbers. Some people use that feature to add a
> dimension to the game. Guess what, putting an F count requirement on
a box
> at AQ is the same thing as having a WOM box you only give to those
that XYZ.

I don't agree, WOM allows you to control who finds your box because
you can give it only to people you know and trust. An Fcount
requirement (which by deffinition IS all about the numbers and only
about the numbers) tells you nothing other than the person is obsessed
about collecting stamps which doesn't tell you they're concerned about
leaving no trace or not ripping apart the flora in a single minded
quest for one more stamp or that they won't find a ranger and demand
that he show them where the box is in his park or send you a
nasty-gram accusing you of having the clues wrong.

For all the accusations of elitism that get thrown around on this site
I'm amazed that anyone uses this feature and besides, that's what your
freaking log book is for!!!

If the Fcount feature is not about the numbers what possible dimension
does counting numbers add that is not about the numbers???






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, ThreeHearts429@... wrote:
> Where I live, there have been several instances of park rangers
logging onto
> the main sites to get the clues to the boxes in their parks and
going out to
> remove them!!! There have also been reports of very unkind
individuals who
> just want to damage boxes - why, I don't know.

I believe that making clues even slightly cryptic is a better way to
foil nefarious rangers and neighborhood hoodlums.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, R wrote:
> I've planted 39 letterboxes and I really appreciate it when people
log their finds, to me it says I think you letterbox is worthy of
acknowledgment.

Once upon a time, people would send actual emails with pleasent notes
telling you how they enjoyed your box. It was much more plesant than a
computer form email indicating you box was found. Yes, some folks
still do that but the number that do is much smaller than what it was.

I agree, PB, mystery boxes will mystify most muggles.
Mark

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Pungent Bob"


I believe that making clues even slightly cryptic is a better way to
foil nefarious rangers and neighborhood hoodlums.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Guess I wont be looking for your boxes either as I;m not qualified. I'll
havr fun searching for others.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My pleasure, Funhog. I enjoy having a mature discussion about how we
each play the game and try to protect our beloved boxes.

I think the part that many people miss is that all I ask is that
someone meet *one* of the requirements, not *all* of them. They are all
very simple and exclude very few people. I've received requests from
people who felt they didn't meet any of them, and they still got the
clues. The idea is to dissuade the interest of those seeking to harm
them. I don't see anything wrong with that, kwim?

Three Hearts


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "funhog1" wrote:
>
> Having looked at your clues, I see that one of the requirements is:
> "c) have found and logged 5 or more boxes." Without this discussion, I
> would've never bothered to ask for your clues since I never intend to
> have an online logbook. I do have one letterbox find, my very first,
> listed on AQ specifically for those who want to use the F1 restriction
> in order to prevent their clues from appearing with a Google search.
> Thank you for clarifying this point.
>

Not to beat a dead horse, but how exactly do you envision "reaching out
to public land managers?"

Letterboxers aren't an "outdoor based organization" and can't be
compared to one. It is an activity- like mountain biking, or kite
flying, or any number of other activities people do in parks. The
placement of a box is in no way equivocal to a boy scout service
project.

I am a public lands manager. I do appreciate knowing what is going on in
my parks- people often damage resources inadvertently, and if I can give
some guidance on boxing more carefully, then I think it is a benefit to
both the resource and to the boxing community. But keeping it in scale,
I have many bigger problems out there than hidden tupperware.

Place your boxes with care, be respectful of the environment, and write
your email address in the box so a land manager can contact you directly
if they have a problem. Don't box where you know it is expressly
forbidden. We don't need to be an official organization to be
reputable.

punky




--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
>
> It's only organized online in regards to the management of clues.
> There is not an organization for contact person(s)that represent
> letterboxing. There's no official organization that a land manager
> can deal with. If you look at other outdoor based organizations,
> they all go to great pains to cooperate with public land managers.
> Do you think a Boy Scout doing a service project is just going to
> walk onto public lands and either nail up bird houses or build a
> bridge without talking to a ranger first?
>
> Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
> reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with the
> clandestine element in the letterbox community.
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Arnold" karenalma@
> wrote:
> >
> > HI, I have been lurking for a short while, got on the list just in
> time to
> > read the recent happenings. WHat kind of organizing? I was under
> the
> > impression that the websites (letterboxing,org and atlasquest)
> were some
> > sort of loose organization. . . but I may be wrong, we are so new
> to
> > letterboxing, we would hate to see restrictions. . . .
> > 6jumpingbeans
> >
> > On 4/10/07, John jprovetto@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been away for a while and just recently browsed some of
> the
> > > newsgroup messages. It seems like letterboxers are getting
> pressured
> > > off of a lot of lands.
> > >
> > > As early as 2001, I said this would happen and nobody listened.
> The
> > > only answer is for letterboxing to organize. If land managers
> have an
> > > entity to deal with, they might be more willing to cooperate.
> However,
> > > I don't think that will happen. Nobody wants to take
> responsibility.
> > > That pretty much spells out the whole problem.
> > >
> > > Forester
> > >
> > > P.S. I'll try to find some of my original posts and list the
> number.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > karen arnold
> > Our blog of pics and family happenings -->
> www.akjlfarnold.blogspot.com
> > Check out the Birth Network in South Dakota! --> www.born-
> midwest.org
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Right on!

lorax



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "larrynncarver"
wrote:
>
>
> Not to beat a dead horse, but how exactly do you envision "reaching
out
> to public land managers?"
>
> Letterboxers aren't an "outdoor based organization" and can't be
> compared to one. It is an activity- like mountain biking, or kite
> flying, or any number of other activities people do in parks. The
> placement of a box is in no way equivocal to a boy scout service
> project.
>
> I am a public lands manager. I do appreciate knowing what is going
on in
> my parks- people often damage resources inadvertently, and if I can
give
> some guidance on boxing more carefully, then I think it is a
benefit to
> both the resource and to the boxing community. But keeping it in
scale,
> I have many bigger problems out there than hidden tupperware.
>
> Place your boxes with care, be respectful of the environment, and
write
> your email address in the box so a land manager can contact you
directly
> if they have a problem. Don't box where you know it is expressly
> forbidden. We don't need to be an official organization to be
> reputable.
>
> punky
>
>
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote:
> >
> > It's only organized online in regards to the management of clues.
> > There is not an organization for contact person(s)that represent
> > letterboxing. There's no official organization that a land manager
> > can deal with. If you look at other outdoor based organizations,
> > they all go to great pains to cooperate with public land managers.
> > Do you think a Boy Scout doing a service project is just going to
> > walk onto public lands and either nail up bird houses or build a
> > bridge without talking to a ranger first?
> >
> > Once I finish my Masters program, I'll have more time to get
> > involved again. If I chose to do it, my first activity will be to
> > reach out to public land managers and to make a clear break with
the
> > clandestine element in the letterbox community.
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Arnold" karenalma@
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > HI, I have been lurking for a short while, got on the list just
in
> > time to
> > > read the recent happenings. WHat kind of organizing? I was under
> > the
> > > impression that the websites (letterboxing,org and atlasquest)
> > were some
> > > sort of loose organization. . . but I may be wrong, we are so
new
> > to
> > > letterboxing, we would hate to see restrictions. . . .
> > > 6jumpingbeans
> > >
> > > On 4/10/07, John jprovetto@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been away for a while and just recently browsed some of
> > the
> > > > newsgroup messages. It seems like letterboxers are getting
> > pressured
> > > > off of a lot of lands.
> > > >
> > > > As early as 2001, I said this would happen and nobody
listened.
> > The
> > > > only answer is for letterboxing to organize. If land managers
> > have an
> > > > entity to deal with, they might be more willing to cooperate.
> > However,
> > > > I don't think that will happen. Nobody wants to take
> > responsibility.
> > > > That pretty much spells out the whole problem.
> > > >
> > > > Forester
> > > >
> > > > P.S. I'll try to find some of my original posts and list the
> > number.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > karen arnold
> > > Our blog of pics and family happenings -->
> > www.akjlfarnold.blogspot.com
> > > Check out the Birth Network in South Dakota! --> www.born-
> > midwest.org
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Well said.

Sheba

larrynncarver wrote:
I am a public lands manager. I do appreciate knowing what is going on in
my parks- people often damage resources inadvertently, and if I can give
some guidance on boxing more carefully, then I think it is a benefit to
both the resource and to the boxing community. But keeping it in scale,
I have many bigger problems out there than hidden tupperware.

Place your boxes with care, be respectful of the environment, and write
your email address in the box so a land manager can contact you directly
if they have a problem. Don't box where you know it is expressly
forbidden. We don't need to be an official organization to be
reputable.


---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well said, I agree. Thanks for another perspective.


> larrynncarver wrote:
> I am a public lands manager. I do appreciate knowing what is
going on in
> my parks- people often damage resources inadvertently, and if I can
give
> some guidance on boxing more carefully, then I think it is a
benefit to
> both the resource and to the boxing community. But keeping it in
scale,
> I have many bigger problems out there than hidden tupperware.
>
> Place your boxes with care, be respectful of the environment, and
write
> your email address in the box so a land manager can contact you
directly
> if they have a problem. Don't box where you know it is expressly
> forbidden. We don't need to be an official organization to be
> reputable.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>